
Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow of the "Museum of Dialogue and Cooperation"
2025/04/11- text and edit by
- Web version of "Cultivate" team
More than 20 years have passed since the Japan Association of Museums proposed "A Museum of Dialogue and Collaboration - Dialogue for Understanding, Collaboration for Action - [Creating a New Era Museum Together with Citizens]." So, this time, NOMURA Co., Ltd. planner Saito Eri interviews Nakao Tomoyuki, who worked at a museum before moving to the Agency for Cultural Affairs in 2020. To what extent has the ideal image of a museum outlined in "A Museum of Dialogue and Collaboration" been realized? What is important for museums in the future? The two, who are old friends and share an extraordinary love for museums, talk together.
Tomoyuki Nakao (right)
Agency for Cultural Affairs Museum Support Investigator
Planning Director Eri Saito (left in photo)
Creative Headquarters Planning and Production Center
To what extent has the "Museum of Dialogue and Cooperation" been realized?
Saito
In 2000, the Japan Association of Museums proposed the concept of "Museums of Dialogue and Cooperation," outlining the ideal form of museums for the future. I believe that many people involved in museums sympathize with this direction, and one of the images presented there is that "museums foster relationships with citizens and local communities and through their actions, both parties grow." Now that more than 20 years have passed, to what extent has this concept been realized? First of all, I would like to ask.
Nakao-san
As early as the 1930s, the books of Gentaro Tanahashi and Tsuneichi Miyamoto already featured talks of "contributing to industry" and "collaborating with various entities," and the image of a museum collaborating with citizens and society was presented early on. Later, at the end of the 20th century, Hisao Ito's "Regional Museum Theory" and "Three Generations of Museum Theory" clearly outlined the image of a museum that is open to the community and works in collaboration with them. I believe that the "Museum of Dialogue and Collaboration" was proposed on these ideological foundations. Since there are many regional museums in Japan, the perspective of "what role will museums play in the community?" is important, and discussions have been held in parallel with the increase in the number of museums. In the discussions of the Museum Subcommittee of the Council for Cultural Affairs prior to the revision of the Museum Act in 2022, awareness of issues and prospects such as those proposed in "Dialogue and Collaboration" have been presented. These are of course important and valuable discussions. On the other hand, looking at this trend from a bird's eye view, there is a sense that the same discussions are being repeated.
Saito
I understand. When I look through old documents, I sometimes feel like, "They were saying the same thing back then."
Nakao-san
The reason why it is repeatedly discussed is probably because the issues presented there have not been fully resolved. If they had been resolved, we would have moved on to the next stage and new issues and prospects would have been presented. The ideal form proposed in "Dialogue and Collaboration" is very reasonable and undisputed. In the discussions, the parties involved nod deeply and sympathize, but on the other hand, have those ideals been put into practice and achieved? It may be necessary to seriously face this point.
The second article of the revised law states that museums should cooperate with various local entities, and the third article states that museums should contribute to solving local issues and improving local vitality by promoting cultural tourism and other activities. As a cultural hub for the region, museums will enrich daily life and solve local issues through accumulated history and culture, deep knowledge, and highly academic experts. I believe that this will increase the social value of museums and lead to them being cherished in the community. What is important here is how to visualize and evaluate the results of the efforts. When applying "tackling issues in collaboration with local people" to on-site activities, it is necessary to set specific efforts and goals to be achieved and proceed strategically, but I feel that this is often only expressed in vague, abstract terms.
The importance of "visualizing activities" and "establishing a mission"
Saito
The local community faces many challenges, but we believe there must be something that only a museum can do.
Nakao-san
That's right. In addition to accumulating materials, museums have staff with specialized knowledge, including curators, so I think there are many things that can be used to revitalize the community and solve local issues. When tackling a problem, you first need to specify and clarify "what is the local issue that needs to be addressed" and strategically think about the path to solving it. There are various means and processes to approach a solution. Where are you working now? How do the results achieved in that project lead to the final goal? If the so-called logic does not accumulate, it becomes difficult to see where we are and why we are doing this. This also leads to the museum's activities and results being difficult to understand. Even if you are working hard and doing good activities with various ideas, I feel that what those good activities lead to is not evaluated or visualized.
Saito
I'll digress a bit... I once covered a children's museum in the United States, and I felt that it was a museum born out of a local and national challenge. The basic premise is that it is dangerous to let children play alone, and there is a social background to this. Some people involved with the children's museum said that the only safe place where children of a wide range of ages can gather and play freely is the children's museum. What is needed for children comes first. If they need to learn art, they will exhibit art. If they need science, they will exhibit science. Divorces are common in the United States, so the children's museum also provides a place for fathers and children who are separated to meet as an intermediary. I felt that it was not simply a museum for children, but a format born out of a national challenge.
Nakao-san
In the United States, activities are very diverse, including libraries, and social contributions are visible. Perhaps the reason this style is difficult to accept in Japan is because Japanese museums start with materials (collections). As you can see from the wording of Article 2 of the Museum Law, materials come first. I have never been to a children's museum, but if a Japanese museum were to take on this style of initiative, some might ask, "How is this different from a community center?"
Saito
Yes, I'm sure there will be voices like that.
Nakao-san
Japanese museums have been operating while separating themselves from community centers and libraries. I think that the positioning of "based on materials" is important. However, I feel that the question of what to do with the materials is missing. If we want to solve the problem, we need to think about "what can we do with this material and this expertise?" However, the current situation seems to focus on what the materials convey. So we write displays and explanations that provide accurate knowledge and information, such as "What is Yayoi pottery?" or "What is Impressionism?", but I don't think this leads to solving the problem. Of course, it is useful for learning about Impressionism.
Saito
So not everyone is here to find out.
Nakao-san
Yes. In terms of how to improve the community through culture and the arts, the question arises as to whether activities that only meet educational and learning needs are sufficient. In other words, there is no mission. There is no focus on the role and meaning of the museum in the community, and the museum's activities are only a means to an end, and I feel that the issue is the lack of clarity in the sense of purpose of what the museum is trying to achieve through its activities.
Which museums have broken new ground?
Saito
Museums have many problems, such as a lack of personnel and budgets. Most are public, so they have their own problems. But even so, there are museums that are using their wisdom and ingenuity to achieve their ideal museum image and produce wonderful results. Which museums come to mind, Mr. Nakao?
Nakao-san
I mentioned the mission earlier, but what is the purpose of a museum in the first place? I think it is important to have a clear understanding of this. Even if the activity is wonderful, if the purpose and mission are not clearly articulated and shared, everyone will not be able to move forward toward that goal. One museum that I think has this aspect well organized is Lake Biwa Museum, Shiga Prefecture.
Saito
We planners often talk about how the Lake Biwa Museum is an epoch-making building. It opened in 1996, but just recently underwent a major renovation over the course of several years, and had its grand reopening in 2020.
An exhibition at Lake Biwa Museum. There is a space where you can hold and observe various specimens, as well as an exhibition corner run by local people.
Nakao-san
The Lake Biwa Museum's founding ordinance clearly states "why the museum was established." "This museum was established to build a better relationship of coexistence between the lake and humans." If this is clear, if you feel something is not right in your activities or initiatives, you can stop and think, "Is this contributing to the building of a better relationship of coexistence between the lake and humans?" and then design activities to achieve that goal.
Saito
As you said earlier, it is a "museum with a mission."
Nakao-san
That's right. If that is clear, it will be easier to systematically proceed with exhibitions, research, and the collection of materials. It will give you a standard of judgment for everything.
Saito
If you have any doubts during your activities, you can go back to that and think, "Is this a good way for the lake and humans to coexist?" The key to the mission is the "North Star" that Nakao-san mentioned earlier.
Nakao-san
The people involved with the museum and the local community share a mission. Of course, they also share it with the museum founder. Everyone works toward the same goal, creating budgets, carrying out projects, and providing support and collaboration. It's like "everyone is working together, with their eyes on the North Star, to move forward."
Saito
Collaboration with the local community. It's not just about saying, "The museum will do this for the local community," but it's important to share a mission with the local community and work together. That's what it means.
Nakao-san
The "third generation museum" proposed by Hisao Ito showed how citizens can participate in an open museum, and had a big impact on those involved. The reason why the "fourth generation" that followed has hardly been depicted is probably because the stance is that "the museum will do something for them" or "we will let them participate in the museum's activities." Whether it is solving local issues or revitalizing the area, I think we need to think about what we can do "together with the local residents." Working together, working toward the achievement of the goal as fellow members. This is very important.
Up until the third generation of museums, what do "museums" do? I think that even with the third generation of citizen participation, museums tended to try to tailor or control citizen activities (of course, there are many museums that do not do this but engage in citizen-led activities). When thinking about the fourth generation, I feel that it is about understanding the museum's presence within society (community) and its role as a base for forming local culture together with society. In that case, I think that the perspective of "museums and" citizens is important. They seem similar, but their positions and awareness are very different.
Saito
Rather than a relationship of one doing things for the other, the other shares a mission and works together. How can we create this style? Are there any other initiatives that seem to be starting to take shape?
Nakao-san
In Hida City, Gifu Prefecture, there is a museum called Hida Miyagawa Archaeological Museum, which has no permanent staff, including a curator. It is a 30-minute drive from Hida City Hall. It is difficult to get there in winter because of the snow. Due to these circumstances, the museum is only open 30 days a year. It seems that they are currently trying to open the museum unmanned, but it is a small museum with only a few hundred visitors.
Saito
What kind of efforts have you made?
Nakao-san
Since they don't have any full-time staff, it's difficult for them to do anything on their own. So they started posting on social media that they were in trouble. The trick to gathering friends is to honestly communicate the current situation, said the person in charge. Hida City has recruited volunteers to help Hida online. They can come from anywhere, not just local residents. This also includes online volunteers who don't go to the site. In an initiative called "Hidasuke," people who gather are thanked with "Sarubobo Coins," a coin (local currency) that can only be used in the area.
Saito
I see. So it also creates economic movement.
Nakao-san
Communication is born between the people who came to help Hida and the local residents, and they become friendly with each other. This is an effort to deepen ties to Hida City and create a "related population" for Hida City. The Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications has now set a related population between the exchange population and the migrant population, and this applies to "people who have deepened ties to the area."
Saito
Even if you don't come to the location, you can still become a related population by connecting online.
Nakao-san
Yes. But it's not enough to simply connect with people; you have to deepen your feelings for the region as you deepen your relationships. Such relationships are the foundation for involvement and support. For example, if there is crowdfunding in Hida City, you can support it. You can make your hometown tax donation to Hida City. Through "Hidasuke," the Hida Miyagawa Archaeological Museum has been working to turn people who have deepened their relationships into supporters.
Saito
What specific initiatives are you working on?
Nakao-san
For example, there is a current demand for digital archives of museum materials. The more difficult it is to get people to visit places like Hida City, the greater the effect and significance of digital dissemination. However, as I mentioned earlier, it is difficult to create and release an archive on our own without a sufficient system.
Saito
So we send out messages like, "Would you like to take photos of documents with me?" And aspiring photographers see that and come to the location...
Nakao-san
That's right. Through these activities, a volunteer group called the "Stone Club" has been formed. City hall staff have also joined the group, and the activities are carried out in a relaxed and fun manner. Through these activities, the group thought that they wanted to create and disseminate 3D models of three-dimensional materials such as stone poles, Jomon period relics that boast the highest number of excavations in the country, and Jomon pottery. They created a program called "Looking for people to help with 3D data conversion," recruited people, and held a 3D data conversion training camp with the people who gathered. Diverse people of all ages and genders, including people from outside the prefecture, participated in the conversion of museum materials into 3D data. Activity reports are posted online, and there are also photos of participants putting the completed 3D data of Jomon pottery on a fire in the hearth.
Participants in the 3D Data Creation Camp examine 3D data of Jomon pottery over a fire in the hearth. (Photo provided by Hida City Board of Education)
Saito
It looks like a lot of fun, and I think the volunteers who gathered there must have had a great experience.
Nakao-san
Even if someone tells you to "do this" and you feel like "that's difficult, impossible," doing it together with others makes it fun and makes you want to aim for the goal, isn't it?
Saito
It will also help deepen people's attachment to the stone club as a historical heritage and cultural asset.
Nakao-san
That's the point. "Let's become familiar with cultural properties" and "Let's become familiar with history" are common phrases, but if there is no process to get there, they are just slogans or impositions. Through these participatory experiences, we deepen our relationship and attachment to the museum materials. As a result, we foster a love for cultural properties and deepen interest in the history of Hida City. It is important to design independent activities that are fun, and one member of the Stone Rod Club said, "It's a playground for adults."
Saito
Would you say that their mission is to "spread interest in ancient artifacts and cultures, and create opportunities for everyone to learn while having fun?"
Nakao-san
The Ishibo Club's website lists its mission, vision, and values, clarifying the goals of its activities. In his book "Cultural Commons," published in April 2024, Hidehiko Sasaki writes that it is important for "a variety of people to come together and enjoy self-governance through engaging in enjoyable activities that resonate with their hearts." I think this is a good example of promoting self-governance activities while sharing a mission and vision.
Don't you think that once museums and art galleries impose restrictions or set a course, things suddenly become less fun? Citizens' values and what they want to do are often different from those of museums and art galleries. Museums must acknowledge these differences and diversity. Of course, they cannot allow activities that could damage exhibits, but it is the curator's job to control this. These days, they tend to block everything before anything happens. I'm concerned that this is the trend...
The activities toward the goal should be enjoyable, not "tough" or "difficult." On top of that, I think it's important to have a logical plan for how to achieve the results and proceed strategically.
The leverage point of museums is value dissemination
Saito
After working at the museum for a long time, you have now moved to the Agency for Cultural Affairs. What do you plan to do at the Agency for Cultural Affairs in the future?
Nakao-san
I think the leverage point for realizing the enrichment and development of museums is value communication. Who we are and what we can bring to the community - this is something that must be firmly recognized by society. When I say this, it may seem like I'm telling the people on the ground to "just work hard." However, in the case of public museums, the administrative departments and financial departments that set up the budget look for value in the community and society from the activities. If the museum cannot show that it is doing such good things and that we should increase the budget, the discussion will not be viable in the assembly. If administrative officials do not know "what museums can do," they cannot put together policies and support projects for museums.
Saito
The starting point is on the museum side.
Nakao-san
People working in museums need to visualize their own value and appeal, and share it with society through collaboration with people and communities who share their passion. This will be extremely important in the future. I would like to support such efforts, and I would also like to develop legal systems that provide a backdrop for the field.
Saito
Finally, Mr. Nakao, as an archaeologist and former museum curator, how do you think we should teach history to children going forward?
Nakao-san
When I was a curator, I once held a special exhibition called "Jomon People Gazing at the Sea," which introduced the Jomon period in Toyama Prefecture. The theme of this exhibition was "people," as the title suggests. I wanted people to experience the lives of people at that time from richly decorated pottery, household waste found in shell mounds, and carefully buried human bones. There was the bones of an old man who had healed from a fractured femur he had suffered in his youth. It was a serious injury, but he lived until he was an elderly man, receiving treatment and care. From this, we can see that they lived by helping each other. Also, when a young child died, they would be placed in a pottery with a hole drilled in the bottom and buried in the doorway of the house. From the special burial, I feel that we can see the sadness of losing a young child. Rather than learning about the history of the Jomon period, it was about the fact that there were people who felt the same way as us and lived there thousands of years ago. It was an exhibition that I wanted many people, not just children, to see and feel.
Saito
It's about "knowing humans." As an exhibit creator, I always think about what benefits children can get from experiencing the exhibit. I hope it will make them think about what humans are like.
Nakao-san
Museum exhibits and experiences have the power to move people. The British Museum Association has been working under the slogan "Museums Change Lives." The idea is that museums can and will provide experiences that can change lives and communities.
Saito
I want to do my best to make sure people have that kind of experience.
Nakao-san
Going back to the topic of mission, I hope that curators will keep these things in mind as they carry out their activities: what do they want to provide, and what do they want visitors to experience?
Saito
People working at museums review their own missions, break them down to realize them, and move forward by visualizing progress with a logic model. And instead of doing it for them, they take a stance of co-creating with citizens - I think the issues are becoming clear. Thank you for today, Mr. Nakao. As someone who loves museums more than anyone else, I look forward to seeing even greater success at the Agency for Cultural Affairs.
Text: Shoko Minamoto Edited by: nomlog Editorial Department
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